The state of the Vita... post #Legacysystemgate.

Discussion in 'PlayStation Vita General Discussion' started by MikeRox, May 31, 2015.

  1. MikeRox
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    MikeRox Well-Known Member

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    So we had a pretty good thread about this 'til someone decided to try and derail the conversation. However, I do think it's a very important topic at the moment. Just as a warning to anyone contributing to this thread:

    So you have been warned! Personally, my reaction to "The Vita is a Legacy system" was a matter of no shit Sherlock!. I don't think SCEE have particularly bothered with the system since Killzone Mercenary. I know there was also Tearaway, but seriously, how much could a game with 15 people working on it have cost in the grand scheme of things? Not to say that it wasn't an awesome game. But still that was 2013.

    Since then, we've had a couple of 3rd party ports. And so atrocious licensed games (harsh word I know, but for Western 1st party efforts...).

    It felt like the internet wanted Vita owners to be shocked, angry even, at what Sony had said. "Legacy "? How dare they! etc. However, all the Vita owners I know really didn't care. Business as usual etc.

    I think that pretty much sums it up, just as much as when they tried to clarify what was meant by legacy. So the state of Vita following Andrew House's comments and the damage control?

    Nothing has changed, nothing to see here.

    Oooh you say Persona 4: Dancing All Night is coming West? HELL YEAH! Earth Defense Force 2 going physical??? Please Sony, publicly distance yourself from your product more often!!!
     
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  2. pkmaximum
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    pkmaximum Member

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    While there is definitely speculation of the Vita to be had based on how is currently stands, we will all have a better platform to base the Vita's future off of after we see what new games are announced at e3 and what booths show up on the show-floor
     
  3. Billybobbean
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    Billybobbean Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to know exactly what point Sony just said screw it and stopped putting the money into it. Killzone was an excellent example of what the system could truly do for me and it's such a shame we never saw anything that technically impressive after that hit.

    Another point is you always heard indie devs saying their sales figures were really high on the vita, often beating out even the PS3 and Xbox. Based on that I'd have expected companies to see at least that there is a market there even if you can only allocate a limited number of people to the projects.

    Not to be a downer but I wouldn't really expect much of anything to come out of E3 besides maybe a release date for the new Resi game. If the last 2 years are anything to go by we'll get a short mention and a showreel of indies. Obviously I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong but it's all but a certainty at this point.
     
  4. Kyle
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    Kyle Just Some Guy Staff Member

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  5. Andrei
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    Andrei Active Member

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    I think it's probably been their official position in terms of first party exclusives for a while now but I think them mentioning that was probably them misspeaking.

    I don't think they're going to have another handheld personally so I don't think they'll officially retire the Vita for quite a while. It'll keep going as an indie platform, as it should.

    P.S. Stop putting 'gate' on the end of things. Watergate had nothing to do with water.

    P.P.S. Admin. The links from the main site to the forum are broken (the bottom right corner links)
     
  6. DuhWhitePanda
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    DuhWhitePanda Well-Known Member

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    Glad to see people are hyped for a rhythm game. Japanese Dance Central 15 with a Persona skin lmao. The only game coming to Vita worth my attention is Danganronpa Another Episode. Sony dropped the ball with Vita and its pathetic. They have more sales than the Wii U, not to mention more 3rd party support, yet Wii U is better supported over all by Nintendo. However, instead of focusing on how Vita is selling better than Nintendo home console, and keeping smaller teams like Zipper and Pysgnosis to exclusively create exclusive games for the console, in the West, they leave it to small Japanese teams to develop games and somehow have the money to translate and send said games to the West. It funny because, in the West, Sony pretty much stopped supporting Vita in its second year. Meanwhile, all the easy hacking aside, Sony stopped supporting PSP last year. PSP really didn't hit its stride till year 3-4. I have to believe it was Sony's financials which lead to their stop of support for the console.
     
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  7. Angelx434
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    Angelx434 Active Member

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    Hi guys, I am new on the forum but I have been following discussions for a while now.

    This debacle reminds me of the Sega Saturn when Sega said "The Saturn is not our future" announcing by that sentence that the Saturn was dead. So it seems to me that an executive saying that the Vita is a Legacy platform is as good as saying "Guys thank you for your support but now we have to move on". Does that mean the Vita is dead?
    I am not sure, that would depend on one basic fact : is there money to make? As long as there is people buying games released on the Vita developpers will make them.
    The issue with the statement of Sony's executive is that it can scare off small developpers which would not dare developp a game for a platform that could be dead within 2 years. Developping a game takes time and money, if you think that making it will not yield any results, you would rather cancel it or, better, make it for another platform. At the end of the day, this is very bad PR, if you want to abandon a platform, you better say nothing to avoid detering small developpers.

    But It's obvious that in video games like any other market, some companies cannot just make money, they have to make huge amount of it. The vita is profitable, but not enough compared to the PS4. Sony's behavior is directed by shareholders that don't care whether the vita lives even though it's a great handheld, maybe the best ever IMO.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
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  8. MikeRox
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    MikeRox Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the forum :) I'd check Karl's article linked above to provide more detail on the actual circumstances of the "announcement".

    It's certainly nothing like when SEGA announced their exit from the hardware market which was a customer facing announcement. I don't remember how the Saturn announcement was done, but the "legacy" statement was referring purely to the hardware writedowns from the 1000 model (which is used in PSTV too, hence why that was also included).

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think the clarification means the Vita is suddenly going to have an amazing E3 and 20 new AAA exclusives announced by Sony. But look how long PSP kept going for. That was discontinued last year after it's successor had been on the market a couple of years. I don't see them doing a successor to the Vita, so I think they'll be quite happy for t to trundle on in it's own way until such a time that developers no longer make money releasing games on it or retailers completely refuse to stock it (even online).

    I'm guessing you're a fellow SEGA fan from your Saturn reference :) remember the awesome long twilight "death" the Dreamcast enjoyed? Well, as long as you liked Shoot em ups. Feels very similar for Vita, as long as you like indie games and Japanese games.
     
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  9. MikeRox
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    MikeRox Well-Known Member

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    No :p

    I wanted to be "hip" :(
     
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  10. comeoutpunching
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    comeoutpunching Well-Known Member

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    Definitely has a lot to do with Sony's financial performance and outlook. It has had a pretty rough year and has restructured divisions, slashed product lines and, I believe, fired and/or relocated hundreds of employees. It has finally started to show some positive signs to investors and PS4 is a big reason why. In that pressurized an environment, it isn't surprising they're going all in on PS4 at the expense of other products (even one as related as vita).

    Here is a recent recap of their financial progress. Essentially, PS4 is their current savior and will probably receive as many of their entertainment related resources as they can currently spare:).
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...it-beats-estimates-on-entertainment-cost-cuts

    I can only be but so mad at them given that their outlook was so dire they were axing entire product lines and related workforce. Nintendo provides a sharp contrast- financial stability fosters patience and strong 1st party support.

    Edit: read Kyle's article and couldn't agree more. There has never been a better time to be a vita fan. I challenge anyone to keep up with the myriad release announcements!! I love it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2015
  11. Curtis
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    Curtis Well-Known Member

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    Sony said some words in conjunction with a slide - and now all of the Vitas in the hands of customers have suddenly vanished. Since Sony said stuff that garnered a knee-jerk reaction from the internet, every developer will cancel any and all current projects slated for a Vita release - or they might as well, since the only games that matter are the ones Sony makes themselves. The fact the Vita survived a severe lack of first-party support up until this point means nothing, and the system is now officially dead after a misinterpretation implied the extension of this first-party drought (that everyone already knew was going to continue anyways.)

    My condolences to Atlus, Sega, Capcom, NIS, TecmoKoei, Bandai Namco, Squeenix and every other 3rd party developer: the internet has just confirmed that your games are worthless. The assumption that Sony is not making (m)any games for the Vita overshadows all of your upcoming games combined. Apparently if Sony hasn't got anything in production, then the system is doomed and none of you third-party devs will be able to sell games to Vita owners anymore - presumably because all Vitas have suddenly burst into flames overnight, reducing current install-base from however-many-million to zero. It's truly a shame a platform dies as soon as the people behind it stop releasing games for it - just look at Valve. Steam could have been so successful...
     
  12. jandermann1978
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    jandermann1978 Well-Known Member

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    ...but they released Portal 2 lately...well, uhmmmm....o_O
     
  13. Andrei
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    Andrei Active Member

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    You are! Just like my grandpa's replacement hip :)
     
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  14. Goro
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    Goro Well-Known Member

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    The "legacy" comment wouldn't have made any sort of impact if it wasn't true, in parts at least. Sony does not have one even remotely "big" project in development for the Vita unless we count a questionably outsourced Resident Evil: Revelations 2 port. The last "big" game they announced for the Vita was Freedom Wars. In May 2013. Two years ago. Two years.

    The Vita is getting plenty of indies and Japanese games from smaller publishers but these don't have any visibility in the media. Whatever games the Vita is getting aren't reviewed or written about. If you go to Metacritic you will find that most Vita games released this year aren't even getting the four required reviews to show up with a score. The Vita Lounge is the only one reviewing them pretty much. Many people also want big budget games and the Vita isn't satisfying those needs. Many Vita games come out but their appeal is often slim.

    If I didn't have a Vita I would probably be wondering when the last time the Vita got a game released for it was. I would probably reach the conclusion that it was Freedom Wars and that this game was a cheap Monster Hunter clone. Maybe an indie got released between Freedom Wars and now too.

    The Vita is awesome for a lot of people but you have to search harder than you should have to if you want to find this out.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
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  15. Brenten
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    Brenten Member

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    This is an opportunity for Sony to gain attention for PS Vita with very little effort.

    The stage is set and assumptions have hardened. One way of getting press is to go completely against the script.

    If Sony doesn't talk about Vita at E3 (i.e. "They're saving it for TGS") or they're lukewarm about Vita, they'll only confirm what "everyone" thinks.

    However, if Sony does completely the opposite of that, then the Vita could instantly become front-page news. Surprises are news. Period.

    I call it the "PS Vita E3 Lazarus Strategy".

    It goes a little something like this:
    1. Have some celebrities on stage playing a AAA multiplayer game on PS4, probably co-op.
    2. Have a "surprise" celebrity backstage playing along the ones who are on stage.
    3. Everybody assumes that he's playing remotely on a Dualshock or whatever.
    4. Have that celebrity (whom everyone assumed was off-site and on PS4) walk out from backstage, still playing alongside the others using his/her PS Vita (share-play or cross-play à la Helldivers)
    5. If you really want to be cheeky, you have the celebrity wearing a "Legacy This, Bi#%&es" t-shirt or something.

    This would:
    1. Blow the minds of the many people who had no idea that the Vita could do this (i.e. share-play, cross-play)
    2. Blow their minds a second time because "Vita is DEAD"
    3. Show how the Vita is a natural extension to the PS4 ecosystem and worth buying
    4. Allow a segue into reveals of surprise PS Vita games - exclusives, 3rd party hits or maybe even a remake or sequel of some long time favourite (e.g. Valkyrie Chronicles, Final Fantasy VII, Panzer Dragoon, Banjo Kazooie, etc.)
    5. Hammer home the fact that on top of Vita-only games, (nearly or most) every single PlayStation game from PSOne on can be played on the Vita (if you include PSNow)... "If you've been a member of PS Plus from the beginning, you already have X dozen games ready to rock out on a PS Vita." Tack on the PS3 and PS4 games with Vita Cross-Buy.
    6. Finally, announce a Vita/memory card price drop and/or new bundle, possibly one with Vita + PS4 with decent savings in the $50 range.

    Fade to black.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
  16. AceofOpus
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    AceofOpus Member

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    I think a lot the reason the Vita is where it is now is because we're at a turning point in how video game news is shared. We're seeing the death (thankfully) of traditional games journalism from a lot of the major sites, many if not all (is Siliconera major?) lost interest in the Vita around the time that SCEA lost interest in it. We now, more than ever are seeing that the best way for a game to get really traction is for popular youtubers to cover it. This should be super easy for the Vita because Sony hasn't put any restriction on their products (nor have their 3rd party devs) like Nintendo has. Sadly the PSVita has no good way to stream/capture footage from natively, and the spotty nature of the PS TV is not a good alternative.

    I've seen some mods for Vita TV capture but it's a shame Sony didn't make a HDMI out like they did with the AV/Composite out that PSP had. With the PS4 Sony was trying to capitalize on the booming LP scene. If one major YT star loved a PS Vita, I'm sure we'd be in a somewhat different place now.
     
  17. TEKTORO
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    TEKTORO Well-Known Member

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    Ok I've been thinking what if the whole legacy debacle was a PR stunt to erase the bad taste Sony has left with the Vita support. It came off as legacy=dead, but what if in fact it meant the way they went about it in the past as "legacy" trying to bury the missteps in the past so they can rebuild the future with it and starting all over?

    Idk its on the back of mind, corporates with failure like to kill things off so it doesn't misconstrue with future plans. Especially if they are secretly gonna respark this puppy?!?
     
  18. Billybobbean
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    Billybobbean Well-Known Member

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    With E3 in a week we will soon know what their plans are, or if they even have any plans
     
  19. TEKTORO
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    TEKTORO Well-Known Member

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    True I know, hopefully some positive news. But idk if they'll even consider the showing, E3 is probably gonna heavily cover the big consoles while everything else remains a mystery. :(
     
  20. Goro
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    Goro Well-Known Member

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    So, the week following the "legacy system" comment was also the week where we got the most new retail game announcements confirmed for the west? Don't think we've gotten five in roughly a week before, at least not post-launch. No matter what Sony's plans are, it's too early to throw in the towel just yet. At least not if you like Japanese games and indies.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2015
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  21. AceofOpus
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    AceofOpus Member

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    Not to damper everyones enthusiasm about the glut of new releases, but could it be all the companies that had planned to announce releases at E3 (after hearing the comments from SCEA) felt pressured to do so now?
     
  22. MikeRox
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    MikeRox Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure the Legacy thing is even a blip on the radar for the most part. People thought Vita was dead before, people still think it's dead now haha.

    But would a fortnight really make much difference in this? I'm not sure there was any pressure to announce Vita software. If anything the fact that support from the likes of XSEED and NIS is stepping UP in the West rather than dying out now (I thought Danganronpa etc was going to pretty much finish NISA's support off before they moved on) makes me feel happier over the Vita now than in the past couple of years. It might finally be getting the software to get itself at least a sustainable cult audience outside Japan.

    However I am cautious with this. I do think these games are very much do or die though. If they don't meet expectations, there's certainly no point expecting any of the newer Japanese announcements reaching our shores.
     
  23. jandermann1978
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    jandermann1978 Well-Known Member

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    ...to keep it simple....NO!!!...if this misleading comments from SCEA never saw the light of day, nothing would change...business as usual...E3=no Vita love allowed!!!
     
  24. jandermann1978
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    jandermann1978 Well-Known Member

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    ...for Vita-Announcements TGS is the only annual "Vita-Reveals-Coming-Out-Party"...has been last year, will be this year as well...
     
  25. jandermann1978
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    jandermann1978 Well-Known Member

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    ...Sony (America) doesn´t have a plan at all with the Vita...I like hearing japanese stuff coming lokalized to western territories, but theres nothing more to it...and I´m fine with it...keep giving us these great japanese titles, cuz let´s be honest...I think the Vita has the most exclusive titles to date when it comes to "real exclusives"...or am I wrong on this point???
     
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